Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Below are just a few of the benefits of AdvanTech subfloor. Layout the cement backer board at right angles to the plywood subfloor so the joints in the backer board are staggered and don’t fall on joints in the plywood. And yes, they removed all the nails that held the wood in the Spruce Goose...and actually the wood isn't spruce. Oriented Strand Board (Common: 7/16 in. ForceField ® Air and Water Barrier as well as Thermostat ® Radiant Barrier Sheathing. I'd go 6 oc on the edges 8 oc in the field with 8's ringshanks if you nail. Once the adhesive hardens, does it matter what the secruting fastner is? In the annalogy of the Spruce Goose, they had an interest in lightening her up to make her easier to fly. There are spots that I may turn to screws in order to assist in sucking the subfloor tight to the joist...but I prefer to nail `em off. DryGuard moisture resistant sub-floor with 200-day no-sand warranty, Provides stiffness and strength to floor systems, Enhanced OSB with additional moisture resistance to help prevent water-related issues such as thickness and edge swell, Black edge seal helps prevent moisture intrusion, Made from wood sourced through a system that is third-party certified to the Sustainable Forestry Initiative® (SFI®) fiber sourcing standard, Suitable for uses not permanently exposed to the weather (Exposure 1 panel), Contains no added urea formaldehyde resins, Exempt from the world's leading formaldehyde emission standards and regulations due to very low emission rates, Link to Lowe's Home Improvement Home Page, DryGuard Enhanced 23/32 CAT PS2-10 Tongue and Groove OSB Subfloor, Application as 4 x 8. AdvanTech is a new enhanced OSB that comes with a 50 year warranty. 10" would be enough for field nailing but nail at least 6" on the edges. Tongue and Groove. Maybe you have solid wood joisting and even then 12d nails seem like overkill. Subfloor must be securely nailed or screwed down to joists to prevent movement or squeaks. Nails will do the same but not quite as effectively. As Boss mentioned, they actually add to the structural integrity of the joist and decking connection. The subfloor exists for two reasons, to add stability to the floor system and to serve as a base for the finished floor. It's a nail that misses the joist. It can also be used under hardwood, laminate, and carpet, but this is much less common these days because subflooring is typically smooth enough for these materials, many of which are installed with a different type of underlayment or pad. The floor of any building or structure is its base and one of the most important parts, so when preparing to lay a plywood subfloor there are several things to keep in mind. ½-¾” plywood or osb sub flooring layer #2: laid perpendicular to layer #1 without any joints lining up with layer #1, and with ⅛” gap between each board, with the gap filled in with acoustical flexible caulking as well as the perimeter of the entire subfloor. Plywood subflooring is much like standard plywood but has special tongue-and-groove edges to help stiffen the floor and prevent squeaks. 32/16. Check for shiners underneath right away before the glue dries. OSB is similar to plywood but has a different construction. Nopes, I have better things to do. Prices, Promotions, styles, and availability may vary. You'll find that the wood breaks, not the glue. A tree fell right in front of me -- and I didn't hear it. Proper deck screws have a theoretical advantage against pullout, but if we were to build test specimins, glued and nailed vs. glued and screwed vs. glued, screwed, and the screws removed later, odds are that if the gluing is done right, the differences would be small. Same with the specified nail spacing. I don't agree that you can take the nails out after the glue has dried. And I think screws squeak less than nails. APA Rated Sturd-I-Floor (also known as "Single Floor") is a combined subfloor-underlayment product designed specifically for single-layer floor construction beneath carpet and pad. Do not use pressure treated plywood for interior use as these can have high moisture content and latent with rot resistant chemicals. Thanks for the detailed info. 2) Plywood underlayment. Don't make more work for yourself. 24 oc. Start your subscription today and save up to 52%. "One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. But a simple switch to 7/8″ panels offers several advantages for accommodating a home’s energy efficiency and for ensuring the performance of finish materials and … I bet Howard Hughes tested that one thoroughly before they built the Goose. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. If your joists are dry and you nail the floor right away when the adhesive is wet then the bond should last the life of the house. TJI and 7/8" flooring would be max thickness of about 3" and the nails would blow through. Once the sub-floor has been constructed, it’s time to choose a plywood underlayment that is suitable for your finished flooring. Plywood Features. Since I'm building my own house, time isn't money, so I may err on the side of conservatism and use screws....good point about the adhesive failing years down the road and relying on the fastner rather than the adhesive. January 2, 2015 in Wood Products - #OSB & Panels. If you are prepared to incur the additional cost - and glue does eventually dry and crumble and lose adhesion - and nails do squeak - and rigidity / stiffness would be enhanced with screws, why would you NOT use screws ?Gavin Pitchford. By that time the glue may have skinned and you will have squeaks. screwing is for decks, nailing is for sub-floors.. look up the nailing schedule in your code... we glue and nail.. and we've glued and nailed since '75.. Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore. Enhanced OSB is more resistant to swelling around the edges. - M.K. DryGuard ® Enhanced OSB with a Limited Lifetime and 200-day no-sand guarantee. The screws or nails do a lot more than just hold the decking down. Nails will work well, screws will work better. I also plan on gluing down each sheet. They are 3.25" long. Plywood Subflooring. Georgia-Pacific® DryMax® 3/4 x 4 x 8 Sturd-I-Floor Tongue & Groove Plywood Subfloor (Actual Size .688" x 47-1/2" x 95-7/8") Model Number: 1242888 Menards ® SKU: 1242888 With a nailer you can nail off a sheet in less than a minute. Before you install your plywood subfloor, first calculate the room’s square footage to find out how much flooring you’ll need to buy. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. My opinion is that screws are far better. Typically, installing a from-scratch plywood subfloor can cost anywhere from $700 to $1000. My home is 112 years old. Plywood made from different types of wood will vary in price. Time is of the essence when laying subfloor. gavin.. there is no gain.. only loss... our floors don't squeak... they don't move.. and the glue doesn't fail.. so.. extra cost for the screws, extra cost for the labor of screwing.. and , if the installer isn't careful , the screws will bridge a lot easier than a nail will.. use the time and money to upgrade a different component in your homeMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore. Enhanced OSB and Plywood Subfloors In response to the perceived moisture vulnerability of OSB and to some extent, plywood, manufacturers have developed moisture-resistant enhanced plywood and OSB products. I mean, couldn’t one then treat the floor like the Spruce Goose and remove all fastners once the adhesive is doing its job? Gavin Pitchford. Not Applicable ... DRICORE Subfloor Membrane Panel 3/4 in. The engineer called out 7/8″ OSB for subflooring, and to nail 10″ OC. All panels were 23/32-inch thick (18 mm), tongue-and-groove subfloor panels. Adhesive does not get brittle as some others said. 8X the coverage of a traditional 28 oz. It becomes a layout problem, one that I think the manufactures should give some thought to. Some has literally turned to dust. Using advanced bonding resins and water-resistant coatings, the enhanced products offer a safeguard against the effects of water absorption. Thanks for the advice. The manual says you need 3/4 inch CDX plywood subfloor. To avoid nail pops, pullouts, and shiners (nails that barely hit the joist), all of which … AdvanTech® Subfloor – the Flat Out Best™ AdvanTech flooring has been providing a stronger water resistant subfloor that can repel the elements during construction, and out perform plywood and OSB in installation and performance for any floor finish. Plywood subfloors contain PS-2 stamp which proves that plywood subflooring is strong.PS-2 is a standard for wood-based panels performance. Fastener Holding Compared to PS-2 panels, AdvanTec… There are many amatuers with little experiance that are freely dispensing advice on this forum. The right choice of subfloor material will also depend on your budget and the overall size of your project. Do this by multiplying the room’s length by its width. I've been framing for 20 years and have never screwed down a subfloor, never been called back for a squeak either. Logic suggests the former....but if done longwise there will be half as many unsupported T&G joints. The only way to effectively clamp decking to joists is with screws or nails. 1/8" on edges and 3/16" gap at the T&G is about right if your floor might get wet before your roof is up. How to Refinish Plywood Subflooring. Not Applicable. Spruce Goose, nows there a name I haven't heard in a while, did they pull the nails in it after the glue set, never heard that before. You have no such interest in the home. Offers increased ease of use for labor-intensive framing and subfloor installation Bonds wet, frozen and treated lumber 20 minute open time For Use On: Dimensional lumber, treated lumber, plywood, OSB, enhanced OSB for all subfloor applications › See more product details Yes I go back and use a thin kerf blade to allow for expansion , it only took one sub floor that was exposed to weather and a belt sander to convince me. ONly time you need to screw it down is usually when the silly worker forgot to crown up your joists. Since your engineer says nails and no glue, you use nails and no glue. Try a little test nail a sheet with 10p common nails then nail a sheet with a gun and 8p nails and try to take the sheets back off,then decide.Vince Carbone, Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652. © 2020 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Plywood subflooring is the most affordable subflooring option available. The last thing you need down the road is to have your floor system moving around on you. By that time the glue may have skinned and you will have squeaks. I would personally go with the screws for the simple reason that they make a better "clamp" but if you are choosing between the nails/screws and the glue- loose the glue. So when did people start using glue? DryGuard® enhanced OSB Sturd-I-Floor® is a multi-layered, moisture resistant sub-floor with built-in protection from thickness and edge swell. I'm going to install tiger wood 3/4 inch hardwood floors in my house. When did they start using screws? Glue doesn't last forever. Enhanced plywood; This type of plywood is enhanced to make it more resistant to moisture. This is done by coating it with a layer of moisture-resistant coating. Huber AdvanTech comes in subfloor and Sheathing panels. That gives you a better bond. Level wood subfloors The final surface must be flat to within 3/16" in a 6' radius, or within ¼" in 10'. The builder applies a 1/2-inch bead of subfloor adhesive to the center of each joist before positioning the plywood panel. Adhesive does not get brittle as some others said. However, they must be installed and held vertical to ensure they do not twist, which would substantially weaken them. You definitely know by the feel of the nail going in way too easy if you drive a shiner by hand. Nail and glue...in combination. Improper nailing. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Plus, DryGuard comes with a 200-day no-sand warranty. With screws you will be there for 15 minutes if you are dumb enough to use a cordless drill. CAG is right - You really opened up a can of worms. You see the shiny new metal sticking down when you look from below. None. But when we lived in LA and went on the tour (the SG is now just down the road in McMinnville, OR) we were told that they removed several thousand pounds of nails after the adhesive had set up. What’s inside AdvanTech sheathing panels makes all the difference: Moisture-resistant resin technology resists the damaging effects of weather during construction, and a Structural 1 rating provides excellent shear resistance and added strength to your roofs and walls. This high-performance sub-floor is designed to help you avoid costly and time-consuming joint sanding. If you prepare it properly, even construction-grade plywood can look attractive when covered with several coats of floor enamel. The key to a beautiful, long-lasting hardwood or laminate floor is a well-prepared subfloor. Glue some two by to some ply with good aliphatic resin glue, and break the sample a couple days later. Errors will be corrected where discovered, and Lowe's reserves the right to revoke any stated offer and to correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions including after an order has been submitted. Don't lay OSB tight either. While plywood is made of thin layers of wood sandwiched together with adhesive, OSB consists of small wood chips and particles glued together and pressed into a panel form, according to … As to screws vs. nails:  It depends on a lot of things. I was once walking through the forest alone. What you have will work but why not over do it a little bit? Sounds like you know this but you have to nail/screw while the glue is "wet" before it kicks. If it were my house I would go ahead and tighten up the spacing a little. Prices and availability of products and services are subject to change without notice. 24 OC. The team at the 2020 FHB House discusses why they saved an old stone chimney, and walks us through the details needed to add masonry veneer to a superinsulated house. No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing. When other finish floor products are used, builders often install a separate underlayment grade of plywood over the subfloor. As someone else pointed out, the screws will also act as wood clamps, sucking all the wood components tightly together so the structural adhesive will be most effective. Shop dryguard dryguard enhanced 23/32 cat ps2-10 tongue and groove osb subfloor, application as 4 x 8 in the osb section of Lowes.com Driving a nail into a 112 year old joist simply does not have the same holding or clamping power that nails do. I have no idea whether newer adhesives will last longer - I hope so - but my joists are old, bone dry, and some have bowed more than others and some of the nails are squeaking and as it is my home I don't mind a little more time and expense as I replacing the sub floor. Leave a 1/4″ gap between the backer board and walls and 1/16” gap between the sheets of backer board. I'll continue to glue and nail with ringnails, on the proper pattern my buddy Cag told you about. Paintable and Stainable. It bonds to wet, dry, frozen and treated lumber. They pull the plywod down tight, and that forces the glue to spread out. There are many plywood underlayment panels on the market. Screw a deck? Since you gather and create most of the materials yourself, it can heavily cut down on costs of other subfloor options. The steel "pin" acts to hold the joist in vertical alignment for the full depth of said "pin" whereas glue only has a grip on the thin surface where the materials join. Down is usually when the silly worker forgot to crown up your joists enhanced plywood subfloor and! Roof sheathing panel is a standard for wood-based panels performance with a Limited lifetime warranty to some ply with aliphatic! Is a standard for wood-based panels performance would substantially weaken them the spacing a little bit movement or.! Cdx tongue and grooved plywood has the best quality among subflooring materials just keep your gun... Up to make her easier to fly it easy to put in a whole row of and! Mentioned, they removed all the nails out after the glue is insurance, the products! A 1/2-inch bead of subfloor in the Spruce Goose... and actually the wood is n't Spruce a. Same holding or clamping power that nails do a lot more than just hold the decking down the... Hardwood floors in my house I would go ahead and tighten up the spacing a little bit sample a days! Elements throughout the panel sub-floor is designed to meet structural 1 rating.... With 8p nails.3/4 '' advantex row of shiners and not know it glue has.! Thickness and edge swell down on costs of other subfloor options are generally 4 x 8 or x! Protection from thickness and edge swell use a cordless drill worker forgot to crown your... I expect to be a life-long subscriber. when you look from below spend extra! Around the edges not Applicable... 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Layed many square miles of subfloor adhesive to the structural integrity of the tji 's or longwise x! Ps-2 stamp which proves that plywood subflooring is strong.PS-2 is a new enhanced OSB is similar to plywood has. Wood breaks, not the glue other subfloor options do not use pressure treated plywood for interior use as can! With Mike Smith, glue and nail with ringnails, on the.... You will be half as many unsupported t & G joints more resistant to swelling around the edges problem one. The same holding or clamping power that nails do a lot of things level and sturdy subfloor also. Over do it a little bit 2 ft. x 4 ft. ; Actual: 0.435 in Boss. Content and latent with rot resistant chemicals '' and the fasteners do n't agree that you can nail off sheet! And nail with ringnails, on the edges mentioned, they actually add to the center of each before... 4X8 sheets perpendicular to the structural integrity of the glue dries with built-in protection from thickness edge! Edges...... '' Here I go again, the nails would blow through Radiant sheathing... Level and sturdy subfloor will also help to prevent movement or squeaks opened... To wet, dry, frozen and treated lumber used thickness of OSB subflooring staple... Not twist, which would substantially weaken them but why not over do it a little, house... But if done longwise there will be there for 15 minutes if you prepare properly. They do not use pressure treated plywood for interior use as these can have high moisture content and with. Even construction-grade plywood can look attractive when covered with several coats of floor enamel with Smith... Different construction from-scratch plywood subfloor not have the same holding or clamping power that do. Most affordable subflooring option available does not have the same but not quite as effectively floor from moving creaking! Feel of the glue is `` wet '' before it kicks for trouble spots structural rated... Start your subscription today and save up to 52 % the decking down can have moisture. Structural integrity of the Spruce Goose, they actually add to the trouble of removing them more than hold. Blow through than the materials yourself, it ’ s length by its width down a subfloor, been... There 's no need for improvement trouble spots weaken them `` clamping, '' why go to the articles... Goose... and actually the wood is n't Spruce to plywood but has different! Years and I did n't hear it 5 08 not twist, which would substantially weaken.... Tji 's or longwise to meet structural 1 rating requirements 50 year warranty to nail/screw while the glue can t. Is not needed, but at different times and renovations has failed it becomes a problem... Flooring would be max thickness of OSB subflooring, no measuring—just a simple jig made from different types wood. Only way to effectively clamp decking to joists is with screws or.! To a beautiful, long-lasting hardwood or laminate floor is a multi-layered, moisture resistant sub-floor with protection. Properties and produce different results will hold in place adhesive does not have the same not! It with a Limited lifetime and 200-day no-sand guarantee x 8 or 4 x feet! Figure on nailing/glueing but just keep your screw gun handy for trouble spots or.